No checklist completed is going to save you. No bucket list is going to save you. No amount of blood, sweat, and tears that you've poured out in your life is going to save you. No amount of cash or worldly possessions is going to save you. You can't take it with you. You'll be dead. Buddha can't save you. Gandhi can't enlighten you. The Pope can't absolve your sins. The saints can't pray you into eternal life. Muhammad can't fix you. Allah isn't able. No president, no legislation, no Supreme Court justice, no state or nation or leader or celebrity. No one can save you because there is salvation in no one else. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Bearded Bible Thinker. Deuteronomy chapter 6 beginning in verse 4 says, Hear O Israel, Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one. You shall love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I'm commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall speak of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as phylacteries between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. Hey, welcome again to this episode of the Bearded Bible Thinker. Today I have a guest with me. Shane Bradley is his name. How's it going, Shane? Good. Hey, faster. So Shane is the administrator of hope Christian Academy here in town. It's a Christian school, just what it sounds like. And we're going to talk today about education. So this month is has been all about, engaging with the culture as Christians and really our duty to do that. And what does that look like? How do we do that? And so we've talked about some well, many things over the course of the month. And this is a big one. I think Christian education is one of the places that the whole thing begins. Right. So, but before we get into the whole meat of the matter Shane, who is Shane Bradley? How did you come to the, how'd you
Shane:get where you are? Yeah, so Shane Bradley is right now a good way to start is I'm happily married to Leah Bradley. And we have a daughter, Valedia Bradley, who's a senior graduating this year from Hope Christian Academy. And so that, that's where I'll start there. I was born. in Dickinson when my parents were living in Kildare and then I was reborn in Dickinson. So I had two beginnings and they were both in Dickinson and so other than that if you get to know me, I really. I love studying the stuff, love studying theology, love definitely over, over the course of the past few years, I've been really loving and studying the Christian school movement and that, and all the big players in, in, in that movement and getting of where it is today. But I'm also. A sports fan. I played. Okay. Even at the college level baseball. Okay. Who's, what's your team? So, so that's the point, that's the point right now where I'm a little proud right now because at the NFL level, I just, I grew up watching the Minnesota Vikings and so that was always a big, part, but my dad was grew up in Michigan. Okay. In fact, we ended up living there for a little while, when I was a, when I was a kid, but some of the Michigan Wolverines, I don't know,
Rob:do you know anything? Michigan Wolverines. I haven't I'm out of all sorts of loops.
Shane:Which is okay, but for you to know, they just won the national championship for football. Yeah. For college football. So NFL Vikings, that's a big deal. Haven't had any success there with winning a Superbowl.
Rob:In fact, Michigan might be able to beat them. It sounds like. Well,
Shane:yeah, they were, they had a good year. No, no question, but that was fun. So I say that just as a little, yeah. I really enjoy watching a good football game and sports. And so, in fact, I would say that's been a big part of when you talk about engaging culture and things like that, after being discipled in becoming Christian, being discipled in, in Dickinson through a good friend of mine and, pastor Ron Dezell actually led me to Christ. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. And so it really became a big part of my c Christian witness and, And then being involved with different sports teams, different, in different ways. And a lot of, as when you're committed to, when you give your life to Christ, it's a, you begin a new life and a new adventure. Yeah, for sure. And and so. So that's taken me even around the world in South Africa, Zimbabwe Doing
Rob:mission work? Yeah. Or,
Shane:yeah. Actually going with an organization called Athletes in Action. Oh. With baseball. Okay. And then. I'm familiar. Yeah. Yeah. And then Venezuela playing a little bit in the wooden bat league in Dallas and in Florida. And then even had the great, opportunity to Yeah, just play with a bunch of, great guys and so that's been a pretty big, part of
our
Rob:lives. So, so how did you how did you go from all of that? Like what led you to become a an administrator at a Christian, at a Christian school? Yeah.
Shane:Short story in the sense of. To not go into all the details, but I graduated from Northwest Missouri State in Maryville, Missouri, and graduated in it with a degree in education. And so I taught Missouri.
So
Rob:you're not just faking this? No. All right.
Shane:Well, I would say that I've had to come home a little bit, from the Christian education perspective. Yeah. However. So, that, that's what my degree was. And then, of course taught in Missouri, then we we moved to Texas and taught there taught there in Texas. And so I've been in education all my life. Well, from from Texas, we went from Missouri to Texas and then we we moved to Mexico and we established a English school in a football team
Rob:in American football, any of this stuff about you've been all over the place.
Shane:Yeah. I literally say my I've I think I was pretty sheltered with my, family growing up and being in a few places, but yeah been to a lot of places around the world. And it's been super exciting because you get to see God move in different cultures around the world. And it's not just it's not just here, it's just all around the world what
Rob:God's doing. Yeah, and you get to see like firsthand that it's the same God, like the same kinds of things happen. It might look a little different depending on the culture, but the same sinners becoming saints kind of thing. But yeah, that's pretty cool. So you're in
Shane:Mexico. And I would say I know we share a little bit of this, but I'm pretty it gives you a little bit of an optimistic view. But in the sense of you're seeing how something small that started, in, in Jerusalem has spread throughout the whole world.
Rob:Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, Yeah, he's talking about, he's talking about post millennialism, everyone.
Shane:But one of, one of the things that, that, to get to your final question about Dickinson is that we were in doing some educate, educate trying to to bring that engaging culture in Mexico and live in there for five years. And then just needed to come back for a number of reasons. And we had our, we have our daughter Valeria and wanted her to get plugged in here, but talk to at that time it was around 2010. So it was a booming time here. And so the Hope Christian Academy was growing. a lot. And I talked to Pastor Ron and he said, well, there is something here. And we just talked through things. And before you knew it, I was interviewing to be a part of the staff at Hope Christian Academy as a associate to Ron. And then, and at that time,
Rob:Ron was the administrator. He was the administrator. Yep. And so Ron Dezelle, who's talking about Ron Dezelle is the lead pastor now of Evangelical Bible Church across town. So Ron was the administrator and you were just under him.
Shane:Yeah, absolutely. And and so that was the beginning. And so then we moved and we didn't know necessarily how long, but we wanted to come, we needed to come back to the state. So, and then, so since 2000, since we moved in at the end of 2010, we've been
Rob:here ever since. Wow. So you actually, at this point, you've got. Quite a bit of experience even in not only in general in the throughout the world doing the education thing. But even here in Dickinson, you've been here a minute, I didn't realize that you'd been. Yeah.
Shane:I would say also learned Spanish learned a lot of different cultures and was exposed to a lot of different things. And yeah, I would say. I would say Became very well schooled in the school of life. Yeah, sure. I wish, it's not about, going to fill in my mind with a bunch of things. I think that there was a lot of things that, that God taught me over through the school of life and through walking with him and falling with him and just doing life as with With King Jesus and
Rob:Yeah. Yeah. Well, That's pretty cool. I had no I'm glad that we did this because I didn't know most of that stuff about your Life and your journey there. That's pretty sweet. And it's kind of cool that God has brought you kind of full circle, right? Like right back to Dickinson where everything started, it's almost like he has some sort of plan.
Shane:Yeah. You speak of plans that, if both of us would share the amazing things that God has done in our lives through Providence, you can't question his reality and his ongoing Yeah. It's just amazing how all those
Rob:things work. There's no way. I mean, if, as I look back at different things in my own life too so like I, I hear somebody said once that everyone is born again as an Armenian because like at that point you don't know anything except I want to do this, and and then like, as I look back though now. And study and look back at all of the ways, right, that God was actually so involved and leading and putting me in the family I was in, putting me geographically where I was on down to the minute details of like specific friends in my life. And it's just, it's crazy. Well, think about
Shane:this. So my wife was born in Mexico city over, 30 million people. Yeah. Okay. I'm small town, North Dakota. Huh. When we didn't know this, but when her family became Christians, they were discipled by a family in Texas. And that family grew up in, or the wife of the wife grew up in Carlstead, North Dakota. Oh my goodness. And they actually discipled, my wife's family, Uhhuh Well, interestingly enough. That that that wife was my aunt's best friend. Oh my gosh. So it's like when you look at those types of things, it's like, it's like what you were saying in your own life. You, you have stories and stories like that where it's Once once you see the big picture, it's amazing to look
Rob:back on. Yeah, it definitely is. It's God is good. So shift gears just a little bit. Like, so you've been in this administration role for quite a while now. I mean, either. Just under Ron or now the admin. Now The administrator. You fired Ron and
Shane:actually, it was like, yeah, that's a good, that's funny. But he was so needed yeah, just during the boom at the church level. It was like, it was not expected for me to transition that this quickly into the administrative, but the church and the school was just, was growing and there was a need so
Rob:yeah, so okay What is just in like kind of the day to day, right? What is? What so we homeschool right We did public school for a while in the beginning In a Christian like in your role. What does a day look like? I mean, I'm sure it's different every day At some level, right? Yeah,
Shane:it's a good question. And as I was thinking about it, I Take it to be like a picture of a shepherd you know when you're trying to guide kids or I think there's a lot of Biblical ideas of leaders or shepherds. Yep. Sure. And so a shepherd You know, number one is a good one would care for the sheep. So I would say on a daily basis I mean, I know pretty much every kid's name and How many kids
Rob:do you have at Hope? Well, right now
Shane:there's a there's about 160. There's 167. Yeah, that's a lot of kids So yeah, pretty cool. When I know them By name now When it gets to you're just like Jesus When it gets to know like when you're talking about daycare or preschool, Sure the I don't have as much X but I know almost all of our kids by name In fact, I know by doing After school dismissal. I know all the kids, their vehicles, their, some of their grandparents, some of their, and so by walking kids to their cars every day and trying to be a little bit of a, have a, have that as a supervision. So I would say when, if you're talking about what is a day in a life, well, as a, in, if you take that analogy, there's some care. And there's some personal getting to know so that, so there's that aspect, I would say another, I would say another aspect is, you're trying to protect. Yep. And that's, that plays out in a lot of different levels on a day to day. But you're also making sure that they're eating right.
Rob:That's something you don't think about, I guess, from like. This side of the table, and
Shane:I'm talking, I'm not talking about like what they're, physically eating, although that's super important, if they're not, if they're eating poison, yeah, that's going to be a detriment. So as a supporter of Christian parents, if there's something that they're, that's coming into their that they're feeding on, that's poisonous, that's going to affect their. Their walk with the Lord, their understanding of his world and his instruction, if, or if God's being left out of that, so I'm just saying, I'm just saying it's important to be a guard and a watchman over instruction. And the instructional things that are being taught to the kids. So I would say that there's a shepherding as far as like that instructional leadership and making sure that we were, we're doing right by our parents by, teaching a biblical worldview in that way. And then I think a big part of that is helping the sheep or helping the kids discern a little bit that way, and so just trying to constantly put before them the truth, the goodness and the beauty. Okay. Sure. Yeah. So you have that. And so then on the other hand, you have the false and the evil. And so there's a constant teaching of discernment and trying to really. Build that culture. Like
Rob:between the real and the counterfeit. The real
Shane:and the counterfeit, yeah. And so, if you say on a daily, now how that plays out on a day to day basis, but it all, I think it all, hopefully it starts with that care. With, the type of shepherding care that you hope that I would say that every mom and dad that, they look me in the eye and I'm trying to do my best to really. Take care of the kids from a spiritual aspect, from a safety aspect, in every way possible.
Rob:Yeah, that's so that's really that's a great answer. And because, like at the end of the day, like I, of course I can't speak for, public school administrators that I do not know. Right. However, just with our experience, what on the one hand there, in general, there are, there tend to be a lot more than 160 kids right at a typical public school. Especially cause you guys are like K through 12, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean that ends up in our public school system, even here in Dickinson that's a. Bigger number, right? So, so I like, I want to be fair, but at the same time even, drop the Christian bit for a second, even from just a care standpoint from a secular worldview, that's got to be hard or impossible for a public school principal, I guess is what it would be in that realm. But now, like, as we think, so, we started homeschooling a few years ago. And we had reasons for that, right? And, again, to be fair, I, like, I don't want to paint our public schools in a way that, that I didn't necessarily experience. But, our boys were getting into grade levels and things like that in which I mean, they're beginning to learn about science and that like some of which was not true. Right. And they're they're going to begin to learn about different concepts and ethics and different things like that. And I. My conviction more and more became what I read out of Deuteronomy, right? That this is my job to ensure that they get not only like reading, writing, and arithmetic, right? But the worldview bit and the, even the true things that they would learn from that system and are going to be learned from a worldview. And so for me it got to a point where I was like, like I actually, since I'm responsible for this, like at the end of the day, since I'm going to be held accountable, I'm going to stand before God at the end of the day for the education that my sons received because of that. And because I have a job and stuff like I don't have time to unteach the things that they would be learning, especially as they progressed into, like further on in, in different grade levels and stuff. So for me, it was there was a practical aspect of it too, the, why we moved away from that and started doing it ourselves. Because. on the one hand, I began to see things that I hadn't seen before through like lenses, new lenses, if you will. And so I began to have a conviction about this personally and the weight of it. And then it was like, I mean, so my son's Had been getting that worldview because they would come home and be like, yeah, well, they were talking about this millions of years thing. And I, like they were frustrated when they were introduced to things like that, right? Because they knew better. But I mean, the things that happen, even in our little. Dickinson is a small town compared to lots of places in the world, in our nation. It's a big town compared to lots of places in North Dakota. But but even in Dickinson sometimes the things that get taught or the things that happen Right? Because they get taught by experience also. Or from just the complete opposite world view. And so, For me, there, there's a reason that we moved away from that. And I just, I think, It's important too to give a shout out to the, teachers that are engaged at like, we have teachers in our church that are public school teachers and they're Christian public school teachers and they do what they can and yeah, shout out work. Yeah. So, and that's a tough gig,
Shane:principals, school administrator, at all different levels there's. There's great people doing great jobs
Rob:and yeah, so I don't like for anyone watching or listening. This isn't By any stretch of the imagination the goal here isn't to be like public schools terrible to like burn it to the ground No questions asked, right? Because there are legitimate Christian people who are working hard in that realm And in fact, I like that would be much harder I actually don't know that I could do it without just losing my job, to be honest with you. So, but so that there's a reason, I guess, is where I'm headed with that. There's a reason that we moved toward that. There's a reason that the homeschool movement in Dickinson is exploding and frankly, all around the nation that's exploding. And Christian schools you guys are growing, right?
Shane:Yeah I, there's three or four schools. I think there's a new school that I wasn't, but in Dickinson and there's a reason and I think everybody appreciates those options, when we're coming from a Christian perspective, but and I would say, educationally great schools. Doing, doing well, in, in number of things, but of course when you're the parent, then you got to think about, the type of worldview that's, being presented but yeah it's definitely, that's where, as we kind of opened up and we were talking about of what I've really been reading and studying, it's been exciting to see, you as that is happening more and more around us I think God is
Rob:showing mercy. Yeah. I think more and more people are and honestly, it makes sense, right? Because as the morality of our nation I don't even want to say gets worse, but shows itself more clearly as that is happening more and more around us I think God is showing mercy. To a lot of Christian families and eyes are kind of being opened more. And I, in the same way. So one of my pet peeves here in church life, right, is parents. So when I grew up, this was an issue. I know not necessarily in my own family, but but it was a thing, right, that all of the discipleship was the church's problem. Right? Like you, you send your kids to Sunday school and to WANA, those kinds of things. And youth group was one. And then at home there really wasn't like their family worship wasn't a thing. It was the church's responsibility. And I think in while that is Very incorrect, biblically like that responsibility falls on the head of the home first and foremost. And things like Sunday school and Iwana, those are supplemental at best. They're not bad, but they're just extras, right? They should be reinforcing what dad and mom are doing at home. And I think the same way really, the same thing applies to education. So, what is the reason, like we've talked about public school and why can't like, what's the reason why Christian education, why instead of just education in general? Well,
Shane:I mean, if you're, I think you opened up, I could, I have, I've thought about that verse many times with Deuteronomy. We're on the same page. I mean, that's, and it basically says the things that I've commanded you today shall be on your heart. And then it says you shall teach them diligently to your sons and speak at all. It should be done all the time. So we have a biblical mandate as parents to teach. The instructions of God, that's a precedence that has been set and other, even that, I mean, you're, we were just kind of having a conversation before we were talking now is that you're going through Ephesians and Ephesians two or six, two through four, honor your father and mothers, which is the first commandment with a promise so that you may turn so that may turn out well for you. And that fathers don't provoke the children to anger and then it is, this is a command and this is, so it's, Paul's not inventing something new, he's taking Deuteronomy and he's looking at the fathers and he's saying he says To bring them up in the discipline and the instruction of the Lord. So when you talk about spheres of authority, God gave the authority to to the family to educate. And so I think that's a, it's a real clear. And then another thing too is when you look at the fear of the Lord as the beginning of wisdom. I mean, if you start with actually just even the beginning of knowledge. The fear of the Lord. So, I mean, without that as even a start, just us being his, creatures are, being in his world that he created and who we are. I mean, it starts first and foremost, with that. So that's, I think it's very, I don't think that's really debatable. I mean, I think, and it's also, it's a, it's an absolute clear precedent in the Bible. Yeah. And it's how things are passed
Rob:on. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think, when you look at like throughout the history of Israel, there are so many examples of what happens when that doesn't happen. Right, like throughout the Old Testament, one of the things that you repetitively see from this Deuteronomy 6. So, Deuteronomy, if you don't know Deuteronomy is essentially Moses going over the whole law again, and the covenant, and the whole thing before he dies. And so, Deuteronomy, when he's doing that so he lays that down. This is just the sixth chapter that I read at the beginning that you talked about. And what follows is the rest of the Old Testament in which particularly the history books that would follow in which you watch, right? Like, oh, this person was a good king, a godly king or whatever. And then, oh, this generation. Went back to the sins of so and so, right? I mean, you see that not happening and when that doesn't happen it, it never goes well.
Shane:Yeah, it never goes well. And I do think that when we were talking about you as a parent and the, how you've have come to different things, it's like, I do think, I'll just say this is just something that is becoming clearer and I, I don't know if I've always I've probably believed a lie in the sense that I've at one time thought that, that education was neutral. Oh, sure. Yeah, and I think that's becoming clearer and clearer now that it's not yeah, and so when are you going to really kind of expose to a kid to all the you know in the sense of It's a gradual release of responsibility. So, you, you're, when you start teaching a kid to drive, it's pretty controlled. You're starting in a parking lot and there's a lot that, that the shepherd is doing to make sure that things are controlled and, things like this. And then, but eventually so when you're talking about when and how that all plays out as far as they're, involvement, in, in the world, in their independence. I mean, I think it's a gradual release of responsibility and there's a time when that instruction needs to be really taken care of.
Rob:Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I, I think too, one of the things that, that is important in the scriptures as we think about why Christian education as you, you mentioned Ephesians chapter six. So one of, it was kind of halfway a joke growing up. My parents would do this To bug me, tease me and stuff more than anything, but Ephesians 6, 1 was I had that memorized when I was really young children, obey your parents for this is right. And but I think as I hear that from, all scriptures, God breathed, Paul said this, but God said this right. And so, as I think about this mandate to children to obey your parents. As a parent, one of the things that comes to my mind is I should be worthy of obeying. Worthy of their obedience. And two, I should, the things that I'm commanding. Right. Or teaching should be worthy of their obedience. It should be good things. Right. And what is the great commission? All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. So go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I've commanded
Shane:you. And yeah, I appreciate that so much because another thing too is like, all these instructions are meant for human flourishing. Right. Yeah. And I think that's being lost. It's like, it's becoming the opposite man. You're obeying your parents or you're honoring. No that's the way God designed for us to flourish as a society and to To take dominion and, feel the earth and do the things that we're supposed to do as human
Rob:beings. Yeah, it's like right in the very beginning. That's the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, so how do you so as you look back as we look back right in throughout? the history of the church the history of church life, I mean, I would view the churches as being an Old Testament thing as well. Right. But so all the way back to Deuteronomy six, right. And previous to that, right. So, but in, in his historically, what is the, we've talked about some biblical things but just in church history, like what's the. Christian education, right? Is there a precedent for that throughout church history as well that we point to?
Shane:well, yeah, I, and I take the same thing you as I'm, Israel. Entered into covenant and then of course, we're grafted into that commonwealth and we are, that and so in history and how, and in Christ we're just so privileged to be a part of that history. But in, in Christ, as that gospel spread, of course, when you look at education today, there was a model that was set up by. I believe it was the Greeks and it was a liberal arts education and as the gospel spread and that was kind of the model the Christian church took that model and they began to implement it and now that's evolved and as the reformation happened and all these things, but that was the model and I, I would say I'm not like a, but I would say that's how that's. That's Christian. Yeah. That's Western civilization. Yeah. So when you say a history, I would say, has Christianity or the church had an impact on the world today or in Western, I mean, that's how things were. The Christian education was the foundation. And I mean, you can even go back to the founding universities. Yep. Here and.
Rob:Back before they were crazy,
Shane:great, amazing Christian where they were just pressing King Jesus in every aspect of life and teaching a phenomenal, liberal arts education. And that was, I believe up till, the 1915 when John Dewey and the progressive movement of education, and then even kind of going. To where the modern movement is. but I would say less, less Christian and more trying to be neutral, inclusive, yeah. Of, of everybody. And even the methodology of, of just a lot of different fads and things that go on. It was, it's not ba the basis isn't the original, even the lo the grief was the idea is like they're trying to form virtuous citizens. Yeah. In a free society. Right. But you can't have freedom without virtue. And that maybe people disagree with that, but there has to be virtue. Well, yeah, I mean with that. And so that the part of the beginning of that type of education was wisdom and virtue. And so, how do you even define that without the Bible?
Rob:Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's one of the I mean, to that point that's always the big thing when you see like a solid Christian person in a debate of some sort with an atheist or something like that. That's one of the main arguments that comes up, the morality thing. And it's like, there, there isn't a basis. And the, in the maybe the overarching worldview that exists today outside of Christianity probably the most popular would be like secular humanism or secularism at some level, right? Like that worldview, that Darwinian evolution sort of thing. And there, there is no basis for morality in, in, in that. And so, and there's not a good answer that they've ever given for
Shane:that question. And that's I think this Bible verse has been taken out of context, but is without a vision, the people live unrestrained, but here's the connection. It's not about a vision that's like, that's going to help you be a CEO of a company to guide. It's, but happy are those who keep the law. So, the vision that he's promoting is a biblical law vision for the vision that we need to live by to live to flourish and restrain with virtuous liberty is a Bible vision. Yeah. It's a law vision that, and it's and we don't have to guess as far as what that is. It's very clear. Throughout the Bible of what, and it just summed up in love. God love
Rob:neighbor. Yeah. Yeah. We're. And so in Sunday school right now in adult Sunday school, we're walking through Exodus. And we just finished chapter 19 last week. So we're getting into the 10 commandments, which is the, the next level right of detail under love God and love neighbor. And it it's always there, there are a lot of people I think that, that are unaware or just haven't studied. Or who maybe get their information not from biblical study, but from YouTube or something like that. Like a lot of folks and the moral law of God. So I, I think that that the 10 commandments before they were written on tablets of stone, like those are all things that were written on the heart of Adam even, right? We have one command that that he was given for sure not to eat of the tree. But to obey that he had to. He had to love God only he, he had to love his wife. He like all of these other things were just kind of an assumption. They were written on his heart. That's how you lived and in the garden. Right. And it's not as if Abraham wouldn't have known these things about God, like, But they're written, like, the Ten Commandments are nothing more than God's character on paper, right? Like, this is how we're to live. And so, this is, this would get us way off track but the idea of the moral law of God still being in complete application today, like that's a eternal thing. I mean, in fact the, in so much as it would apply to the angelic world, they have to obey that, right? You see what is the fallen angels? What did they do? Well, they didn't love the Lord, their God. First, I mean, At the end of the day, they broke the 10 commandments and that's why they're fallen. So this is something that is transcendent. The moral law of God. Yeah,
Shane:absolutely. And it's binding. Yeah. It's not something that, I mean, God's character, it doesn't change. Right. And he's not surprised by technology and all this stuff that's going on. This is the way that we're, it was going to end up. He knew, but his character. And his laws apply to, social media as much as any other, how we live, how we love our neighbor there, the end, the general equity of the whole even life in Israel, you can apply all those principles. I mean, we're not necessarily having fences around our roofs because we're not hanging up. Hanging out there on our roof very much. Yeah. Right. But the idea is to protect your neighbor, to protect the person that you're having up there. To fall falling off. And that's that love god, love neighbor comes out in all his commandments and even justice punishment. Yep.
Rob:Yeah. I I think I've even said this on other episodes but if not, people can get mad when I say it now. But to that point you have so, currently as we're recording this, it's January. When it airs, it'll be in February. So I've been doing also lots of work cause January is Sanctity of Life month. And so there's a lot of this abortion war and things like that. And the the penalty for taking a human life is death. And that happens before the mosaic law shows up, right? That was a Noah thing, even and God mandated that because they're image bearers. And I am always so frustrated when, so my wife likes watching like Dateline and those kinds of things. Right. So we ended up watching those true crime story things and it's so frustrating, like even last night. She was watching something and it was this dude who had killed seven people. It was serial killer. And he'd taken the lives of seven people. And he he did some kind of plea bargain to take the death penalty off the table. And I'm like, that shouldn't happen. Like as, as tactfully and with as much of a Christian heart as I can possibly have, they should have taken him out back and shot him and been done with it. Like that's just where I'm at with the capital punishment thing, right? That when you take a life, you're giving yours up. That's the scriptural
Shane:view. Those are moral principles that are just not. It, yeah. It's furry. And then, and I believe, and it's hard sometimes. Those are really tough. But it's meant for us to flourish as a human society. I mean, cause God loves us. He created us. And his law, if we follow it. It's best.
Rob:Yeah, right. Yeah. So, Christian education, right? I mean, we've been talking about a lot of stuff that, that I think is part of the foundation, part of the reason part of the backbone of why it's necessary. So like in our particular cultural moment what How, just how important in your mind is Christian education specifically?
Shane:So I mean, of course, I think we've already tried this, that many could be debatable about, the settings and things, but no matter what you're, where you're sending your kid, that doesn't negate the responsibility for Christian education. Yeah. I mean, and I think every Christian would support that view is they are the primary, and I know we get a little bit confused. You were even talking about your own life, how you, it's kind of, sometimes it's handed over to the church or this, and we kind of operate that way too in what we for sure operate that the parents are that. The primary, and we're supporting that. And so, but when you talk about the cultural moment, I mean, I don't need to spend a lot of time in this, but it's just, it's very simple. That's how you pass on Christian society. Yeah. It has to be passed on somehow. Yep. And if you don't, and you let somebody else do it. That's how that's the side he's gonna turn up and so in a very small simple statement How important it is to culture? Well if we want Christ's kingdom to grow in advance We can't just We can't not engage, engage in education. Yeah, I
Rob:think it starts I mean, it obviously starts with the individual humans. I mean, so parents in this conversation and their own study, their own fervor, their own love for God and neighbor. But growing out of that, the very first thing. If you're a parent, the very first thing is that you grow out of your own personal walk with Christ and submission to him is making disciples the great commission. And the very first way that happens is with your youngsters with your children. So I mean that if we did nothing else, which would be. But if we did nothing else, if we did no other evangelism, no other mission work, whatever else but we really, this is just obviously my view, I guess. But but if we did nothing else Great commission, like, other than raise our children in the nurture and instruction of the Lord and did it well and did it with intention and did it with gusto that would change the world. I really do believe that. Now we obviously, I do all the other things and that's good. Also. We just had someone this past Sunday that came up after and like, I'm pretty sure that heart of stone had become a heart of flesh, right? Like miraculous things. One,
Shane:and when you talk about culture too and there, there is. There is a type of mentality that c that creeps into Christian mindset. It's agnostic view. That gnostic view is we're trying to escape this world somehow, and we just wanna, yeah. It's all going down and this and that and it's, whatever. And so why bother? That's not a biblical worldview, right? If we love God and love neighbor, we're gonna want our. His, the world to flourish under his authority and his, and so it should affect every way and what we're passing on to the next generation. And I would say that there's a lot of great. Non christian people that have done a lot for in every aspect of life. And I do believe that that Christian worldview should affect every area of life, his Lordship. And if we do follow those principles, and so education is absolute. We want we want government. We want We want churches, we want every business, to, to really, to have. That that type of biblical instruction that would really to, to have an impact on it in a good way. Yeah. The way that God designed when he said, yes, the minion fall, I mean, he was really. Putting a stamp of approval on engineering and building bridges and everything that however we would, fill the earth and establish societies and all that, everything's important. It's pastures are important, welders are important. Doctor, it's all important. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, when I say Gnostic, it's kind of that idea of separating, like spiritual versus no. Yeah. It's all. It's all. It's all important. It's all. Yeah.
Rob:I think as men, we have a tendency, especially as men. We have a tendency to play the separation game, right? Like my church life, my home life, my football life, whatever, right? Like whatever you want to put in there. Right. But your church life, your. Christ life that, that has to be the umbrella, like that has to be the sphere in which everything else in life functions. So, okay. Just some practical things. Let's move into that. Some just some of the practicalities maybe of so as we talk about Christian education, particularly. I guess there really isn't a difference, but just in particular, from your perspective of like Hope Christian Academy or the Christian school what makes it a Christian school specifically? Like what are their criteria? Are there bullet points? Like what philosophy, whatever what separates a Christian school from a public school or.
Shane:Yeah, and I would definitely say, I would love to tell you sit here and tell you that you know It's a perfect utopia. Yeah.
Rob:But then you'd be a socialist.
Shane:I say, when you talk about a Christian school, you're not talking about a school without sin. Yeah. Right. Families, society, life in general. I mean, the Christian, as long as we're here, we're fighting the fall and that's a biblical worldview that is being taught. So I say one separate. Thing that I would say is we're teaching the fall The problems that are have arisen is because of sin not because the creation isn't good Yeah, and God's world that he'd created isn't good. But the fall is and so a Christian school is on a daily basis fighting the fall just like every everybody every but we're doing it from Christ is the answer our crew to restore and redeem and to teach that God is making all things new in Christ. And that's the answer. And when we do fail and we get, and things get really messy there's restoration, there's mercy, there's forgiveness in Christ. So that, that would be a worldview idea. And another thing too, is in a sense that what you're separating is that I, when you talk about Christian worldview, I say it's just, it's not complicated. It's three things in the beginning, God created. So creation. Fall and then redemption. So that's a biblical worldview. So when you look at the lens of the world today We see creation. We see the effects of the fall, but we see a plan to restore that in Christ Yeah, and so that's a big and I would say a Christian school, if it's a Christian school in name, that means it's a Christ school. So what you've made a decision as not, is not to be a perfect school, but you're now under the authority and reign of Jesus Christ. So Christ is Lord. Yeah. And so, and in, as Christ is Lord, he has some instructions for us. So that the only place that, that we have that as Bible. So, what would separate, I would say, I mean, even so called, maybe Christian schools is the Bible has to be the ultimate authority. Yeah. And so when you're talking about a king, you have a king, but you have instructions of the king. Well, that instruction is given to us. It was handed. He set up apostles. To guide the lifelong ministries of everything we do. So, we can go, we can behave badly and go, but the mission and the vision of that can't change. Christ is King. The father gave him all authority in heaven on earth. That includes hope Christian Academy. And so we have to go to him for as Lord and follow his instructions in every way. So I would say, that's what would be, in a sense, some distinctives.
Rob:Yeah, it's interesting when you were talking about that that the for me it seems like one of the, one of the things that you were kind of saying that, that is, was really good was even what you began with, right? That there is Almost as if we don't, it's not that Christian schools are without sin, it's just that Christian schools probably acknowledge sin.
Shane:Yeah. Because sin is transgression against his law, right? That's what, and so there's a definition for that.
Rob:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And well, and in, in maybe a public school setting where it's more about inclusion these days than ever before. Or maybe. I haven't thought through that, but maybe maybe a more true statement would be there. More, there's more diverse thinking and worldview to include than ever before. But the problem in that worldview could be several things and there are several of them, but sin isn't the basis. Right. At the end of the day, I mean, that's what makes us Christian in general. Right. Is the, those three things that you mentioned, right? Like that particular world. Yeah. As
Shane:I was talk we went to a Christian school, visited over, this past year, and we were talking to a school administrator and what are some challenges that you're facing with with you guys asked him that. Yeah, we asked him that. He didn't hesitate. He said, the biggest problem that we face is sin and the fall. Yes. And he was like, he's like the biggest face problem I face in my own life is sin, the biggest face that we, so, and he was just like, this is the first thing he said. Yeah. And you're, and so you're exactly, I completely, I'd be an absolute idiot if I didn't say. I don't feel the effects of sin in my own life on a daily basis. And so that that's a challenge as people. And so, we want to obey Christ in everything we do, but we're humble in the sense that, boy, That's a process and God is helping us to become more and more victorious and things like that. But yeah, I mean, and unfortunately, if you look at our history, we can't sell Israel's perfect behavior. We can't sell The best king or the probably in historic, we look at David and we look at even our own church history after Christ, we can't point to perfection in any way.
Rob:Yeah. I'm that American gospel documentary, have you ever seen that before? There's one statement in there that is made that made me think of that. And it was. That the, have you ever noticed that the Bible takes great care? To how did he say it? Something like have you ever noticed that the Bible takes great care to, to tarnish the reputation of everybody? Except for one person, like no matter who you point to that, we would probably think, Oh, that dude wears a cape for sure. Right? Like no matter who you point to in the scriptures that there's only one and the whole book. There's only one, the second Adam. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't eat the fruit, baby. And he was the owner of other fruit. Certainly could have. So how do you keep it that way? Right, like that's a follow up, right, like, because I think in an age right now we're in a a moment culturally, you talked about the, essentially the Ivy Leagues, right? Like back in the beginning of the Harvards and Princetons and all of those things. They were very much Christian. I think that I think actually Jonathan Edwards his famous sinners in the hands of an angry God was first preached and not at his congregation not to his congregation, but to at Princeton, I think it was one of those Ivy league schools. I mean, it was very much Christian in worldview and in goal and the whole point of the colleges and and we, I mean, even in our own public school. System, I mean, at first there's prayer, there's Bible reading, there's even before America. Right. Like one of the reasons that in church history that they wanted to gather children and teach them to read was so that they can read the scriptures. Yeah. And now we're in this moment where, I mean, Harvard is a pagan Princeton Pagan Penn State Pagan. I mean, name the state school Pagan. Right. And even schools like Grand Canyon University that is a Christian. College and several others right that like there's so many things that are very pagan that are creeping in It's even hard to find a seminary to train pastors in now Yeah, you're not
Shane:You're talking, you know broad you mentioned public school Christian schools cities where you're not. Yes single one out how do you maintain that? You know as I was thinking about that question you have to, I would say I know what, why I came here. Cause, cause I knew a person, I knew Pastor Ron, so I knew it was a Christian school. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And if I, and I hate to say this, but as you have newcomers come and they're looking for churches, I know you. And you can probably point to your elders and, so I think there's some leadership that and if we do look at the kind of the history when and no successes is no team is an island of one person. Right. And so you have these, you have your. Your mission and vision that you have a church and it's all statement of faith. Those things that you can point to that just have to be there. But how does it maintain? Well, it's gotta fall in the hands of good leadership and to be main maintained. But ultimately I think we, we enter into the sovereignty of God. Yeah. And how when it doesn't go that way, he takes away. And he brings some, somebody, people that are faithful. Yeah. That can, cause his kingdom is gonna advance. With or without Hope Christian Academy.
Rob:Yeah, that is, that's actually a really good point too, right?
Shane:Or the United States society. Right, yes. His kingdom is bigger than us. Everything is expendable. And societies have fallen and God used a more righteous nation to rise up and a better, whatever.
Rob:Yeah, we've had similar conversations because just at the church level, right. Obviously again, different than a Christian school in many ways but in some ways similar, right. And particularly what you just talked about, we have we've historically had elders, deacons, that kind of thing. That there's tension, there's arguing, there's not one like unity unified direction. We've had situations where like pastors thought they were the man and and so everybody else who's in leadership is underneath them. They're the boss. Like we've had lots of unhealthy things. Let's just say it that way. But right now. By the grace of God alone we have a really healthy leadership team at our church. We have elders who really, truly do care about the glory of God. First. And one of our elders every Monday, we meet weekly, every Monday morning as elders. And one, one of our elders almost every week prays Lord, get us out of the way of of your church, of what you want to do at your church. Don't let us hinder it. That kind of thing. Right. And that's, I think the summation of the heart of our team of elders. And so we've had some of the same, like, okay, well, how do you maintain that? Right. Because someone might fit into the first Timothy qualifications, for instance. And not necessarily fit the elders. here, right? Like, and so like, it's it certainly includes first Timothy, but it kind of, it's bigger than that too. In the sense that like you could match all of the things in first Timothy. And yet we might not get along because you're very different theologically or so that, I mean, that's going to lead to butting heads and whatever else. So anyway, all that to say. The idea you presented about leadership team is for us, like, this is something that we're going to ferociously guard. And it's not like I have a buddy that I do podcasts with, Michael. He told me the story once of, he went to fill in at a church to preach one Sunday and they had a signup sheet in the back for elder. Cause they couldn't, didn't have enough elders. And so there was just a signup sheet, like a. Church potluck kind of thing, right? Like just go and sign up to be an elder. Like that's not the way to do it. Like that's how you don't do it. Because you, I mean, it's something to be
Shane:guarded in a nutshell. I mean, I think we're on the. Cause we could say, boy, we got this great statement of faith and, and mission and vision, but who's going to carry out that? And I think that's where we've been fortunate in a church and in the school that the board and the leadership, it's a very strong leadership. And it's very, and it's like what you're saying in your situation, people are just guarding, and I do look a little bit like that as far as like. And you talk about preservation of, Christian instruction and is that if you look, if you do look at even Nehemiah when he was rebuilding and maybe you were in that process where it's like, if you're not building, if you're just taking a Titanic view of, it's a sinking ship and, but if, I think we're supposed to be building rebuilding. And they had a sword and a shovel. And the shovel was the building and the sword was the fight that you just, you're not going to, you're not going to get away from. And so you just got to fight, guard and build.
Rob:Yeah, when I went to Afghanistan in 2009 we our battalion was tasked with creating a firebase. It was an artillery battalion. So we were we went to, short version, we went to basically some field. Right. It was desert. So we went to some just location where nothing existed. And then we slept in holes for a minute. But when the bulldozers and all that got there, started pushing berms up and all of that kind of thing. But they're not the bulldozers aren't doing their stuff. You're not setting up tents. You're not doing any of that stuff without somebody. With some pretty sweet rep weaponry hanging out right there watching and on guard and it's, it is the same, it's the same thing. We have to, and we've talked about both of those things throughout the conversation that it's a twofold thing in that the like a shepherd in general, you opened with that the idea that as an administrator, one of the things that you kind of see yourself as a shepherd and in a way, and and the shepherd feeds the sheep. And the shepherd kills the wolves, right? Like, it's a both end. One other
Shane:thing I do appreciate is you and other pastors from the community just coming together for us for the entire community and praying for us. And of course that's an essential part of it is when you have godly people, praying. You, that I think that's a big part of some of the, like what you're saying, how do you, how you're preserving, Christianity the healthiness of the Christian churches and schools and families and in our cities and things like that.
Rob:So, Yeah I'm It's been one of the great, like, honors to, to show up on Wednesdays and it's actually selfishly it feeds me a lot to show up there with those other guys and just not have an agenda other than show up, hang out, laugh, pray for Dickinson and surrounding areas and in our nation, we do that too. But so, just kind of, I think as we continue to kind of move closer and closer you've got to head out here before too long. One of the questions was are there clear benefits to a school like Hope Christian Academy for instance, over other options? And I think honestly, I don't even think we need to go there because everything we've talked about Is that list really the Christian worldview being the big one. And so I think one of the, one of the things that when people hear at least this was this, so this is I don't want to do the straw man thing. Right. So when I hear based on like my past and experience. With Christian school kids. And when I was growing up and that kind of thing and even as a parent, one of the things that, that you might think of is, oh, that's unaffordable, right? Like that's impossible to do that. People have that homeschool has that stigma too. This is just impossible. This is unaffordable. Public schools pretty much free, like taxes do that anyway So, just at that level, right, like what are some of the, maybe challenges ideas false assumptions that need to be overcome or that can be overcome. When a family thinks about maybe like swapping or finds themselves convicted by some of the very same things we've talked about and it's considering like a whole Christian Academy. What does that look like? How difficult is that?
Shane:Well, yeah. Yeah. And I, I would just kind of finish when you're talking about kind of benefits and things like that, as we, we both, firmly believe that each of those decisions, whatever it is it's a parent decision. And so those are great options. And I would just say, like, just reemphasize it's over 12, 000 hours. So when you're considering it if you are sending them outside the home to any school, it's 12, 000 hours, over 12, 000 hours of an, that you're handing your kids over for instruction. And so one of the things, just to kind of, is just say one of our, biggest benefits are, I would say to a Christian family would be we seek to teach all subjects as an integrated whole. With the Bible at the center, and then, and we're, and then it, when you're dealing with an information age. Where it's just like, and part of the mission we have is to teach the true good and the beautiful, according to Paul, whatever is true, whatever is right, whatever is noble, think on these things and help them to discern all the information that's coming at it, the true, the good, and then, if they view it as true, good and beautiful, whether they're going to be inspired to, to do that. And I would also say that one thing that if you're going to be sending your, one of the things that we try to do is not teach an overemphasis on the trends that are happening, but a broad education where where it's you're not emphasizing. A certain aspect because, okay, our day in, it's just like, it's a, we try to do what we're trying to do and even move towards is kind of a well rounded liberal arts type of education that, that helped form Western civilization, kind of get back to home and in that regard and that to put wisdom and virtue as a priority so that at the end of the day, you're, You have that as a goal to to have virtue, wise and virtuous citizens that would help us, help the civilization flourish. So the challenge, and I'll just, and with that would the board doesn't want any family to finance this to be the reason. And so that's why we have a strong tuition assistance as far, as long as I've ever been here. And we have very generous donors that are giving for that specific person that everybody can attend, hope. And so don't, I would say that if that's something that's a, it's a held back and then, that, that's just something that we've talked a lot and we have a plan for tuition assistance and try to help families in every way possible.
Rob:Well, that's huge because I know that finances I mean, like, maybe for some folks that sounds pretty petty and arbitrary. But, I mean, if you're the family that in this world that we live in now, has to, like, doesn't have a choice at the moment, but for mom and dad to both be at it working outside the home, which happens and perhaps you can't afford or maybe you have a child that Learns like you just, you couldn't pull off the homeschool thing for some reason. That financial stuff is a big hurdle for a lot of people.
Shane:And I also do want to paint a picture cause there's a, I think there's, have you ever heard this song? Every day with Jesus is sweeter than the day.
Rob:Okay. Yeah. I've heard that. Yeah,
Shane:that's not reality. And I wish I could say that, like when you're talking about somebody who wants to, or, I don't want you to come into the wrong impression. Like every day at hope is sweeter than the day before it's like, no life. We do life together and we're fighting the fall. That's just an absolute reality. Selfishly, I would say that we have Wonderful, caring people that help with that but it's not, if you're thinking about it and if your idea is every day at Hope is sweeter than the day before, you could talk to a few of our students, depending day in and day out and even homeschoolers or public, I just don't think that's a reality of what you're trying to accomplish,
Rob:I don't think there's any form of it that isn't messy. No, and
Shane:I would say there's joy and there's trials and absolutely. And it's a great place to be, but I'm not. I'm not going to, I'm not going to sing that song every day. I hope it's sweeter,
Rob:yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, and I think just like you were very forthcoming at the very beginning of it. Like one of the very things that sets that sets any school or homeschool family or whatever apart as Christian in particular is not. That there isn't sin, that the battle doesn't exist there. It's simply that we acknowledge first and foremost that is the battle. And so that,
Shane:that's a bit of a core of you. It's a, there's a fall and we're fighting, and
Rob:so, yeah, I think this maybe a good place to, to come to, to kind of land the plane is just that Like everything that we've talked about, the whole point, right? The reason that I wanted to have you here to talk about Christian education is because the focus is engaging the culture for the, this month that this will be airing. And and I personally, I think one of the ways that we engage the culture is so just to get in trouble here at the end you play the long game, you play the long game, but this, the same way that the communists and other groups throughout history have done I, yes, we have to do these things and engage in culture like you and me being out in the culture, doing whatever we can do, but we train our children. To train their children, to train their children up in the nurture and instruction of the Lord. And so we, one of the ways that, and I know you agree with this, that one of the ways that we engage our culture successfully as Christians is by building it. And that's what Christian education does, I think.
Shane:Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I think when you talk about that third part of the biblical worldview redemption, it's making all things new. There's going to be a renewed, heaven and earth, and it says there's life on earth. I know that goes into things, but we, your kids, I mean. At some point, you're not going to be here. What are we leaving for the next? And and I and I'll, I do think there's a lot of things that are free. But but there is a cost to everything. And if we look our, at what we're doing as a whole there's the, some of the life that we're living in today is the effects of the price that we're paying for. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yep. And so I do think that there there, there is a cost to what we're doing right now to invest in, in the kingdom of God. And, we're what as parents taking that ownership and really considering and, Help in that.
Rob:Yeah. So just to leave everybody with something tangible here, like some of the people that do listen or watch this, listen to or watch this fairly regularly are people like from my church and some people just from Dickinson. So what if people were from here what how do they get in touch? How do they learn more about hope? In particular,
Shane:yeah, a physical location. If, if you're bad, like I, I gotta, I like talking to people face to face. I hate to say it. I mean, I could send an email or, and you can do that too, but that's
Rob:not very 2024 of you. I even
Shane:with my teachers, I could just, I like to talk to them a lot and I go and I mean, so if you just come in to 2891 5th street West.
Rob:2891 5th Street West.
Shane:That's our physical location to come any time and to visit and to see. And our number to call if you want to come and visit is 701 225 3919. And then, just some informational things that you could, if you wanted to search for us and look at a lot of different things HCA Dickinson. org is our website. Okay. And then and we also have, you can search us on Facebook for that too, but those are a few ways. Sweet. Well, Hey, before, before we leave thanks man. Thanks brother. Appreciate it. Cause this was a really fun talking with you and I really appreciate your the emphasis this February. It's a great emphasis and it's, it starts kind of with just having a lot of good conversations and. And I appreciate that you're doing that. I appreciate and even just, even having a voice to just even talk about Hope Christian Academy and appreciate all the kids from, even from Hillside that are there. Yeah.
Rob:So. We have a bit of a rep representation there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, thank you for coming on. And I know so you're, you don't do this kind of thing all the time. And so I know there it's a new world to sit behind a microphone and talk for a while. It's a first actually. So, so there you go. Now you're pro though, right? Like it, it's really not that difficult. So, thanks for
Shane:the. Flattery.
Rob:Yeah. Well, I was hoping it would get me somewhere. But Hey thanks for joining us and sticking it out and listening or watching. And until next time, go train your children in the way that they should go.